Mathew: Hi all, I've been finding the mentalism study group very useful, I reckon it's a great idea to channel all the ideas and opinions on these boards into a loosely structured course. ('Nuff respect to Huw) So I was wondering if you plan to run any more groups in a similar vein using different texts or covering different areas of magic?

Mike: Presently, we have started a study group for walk around. It has just begun and we are working on strategies to initially decide where to find the work and how to go about getting the interview. We shall take each step separately in this, from starting to choosing the routine to where all of this should lead. At any time a member would like to start a study group on a specific subject and has other members that want to join in, I will happily house it in the library and index it for the members use and ease of location. You'll note, if you peruse the indexes, there is a spot for study groups. In this way, say six months from now, you want to go back over the notes in any given study group, you won't need to run a search or sift through the threads, trying to find what you want as it will be easily found in the index. That's what the index is there for - use it!

Nigel: The study groups have been very popular and have generated some excellent discussions. They have helped to turn these boards to the very best on the Internet. I agree with your sentiments regarding the wish to see more of these in operation. I too would like to see the same. One major problem is the amount of work involved in starting and maintaining these projects but I am sure that you may appreciate this. However, there is no reason why a member cannot start and maintain one of these if he/she is interested. Rather than wait until a moderator or someone else starts the desired thread, had you considered "going it alone" and starting one of your own? I'll warn you that it will take perseverance and commitment but, if you are keen, you may wish to take on this role.

Huw: Glad to hear that you're enjoying the Mentalism Study Group. I'm very keen on using the Internet for 'distance learning'. Indeed, at this very moment, I'm part of no less than three study groups on the Internet - a French course run by the Open University, a Tarot Course run by Barnes and Noble and, naturally, the Bunny mentalism group... Well, we have the technology. All we have to do is find ways of using it!

Joker: This question goes to each moderator individually. Why do you think you deserve to be a moderator more than someone else? There are many members on here who spend hors every night on MB, post hundreds of helpful messages and help countless other members. Why do you think you deserve to be a moderator instead of them?

Mike: That is a fair and reasonable question. I personally don't feel that I deserve to be a moderator, I just am. I was voted in by the moderating team at the time and here I am. It's not a matter of who deserves it and who doesn't. It's a matter of when we need another moderator, we shall talk about who we feel is most qualified for such a thing based on how much time they have to devote to doing the chores of moderating these forums. Unfortunately, there are only so many moderators needed, so it is exclusionary - everyone can't be mods! Aside from that, being a moderator is not much different from being any other member. We are required to abide by the same rules as the members and we have another set of rules that applies specifically to us, which is even more exacting than the general rules, as the moderators should be held to a higher standard. So, it is not a matter as to who deserves it and who doesn't. It simply is the way that it is.

Laura: I think it is an honour and a privilege to be asked to be a moderator on these boards, and I think part of the reason that each one of us has been asked to be a moderator, is that we understand it.

We have all shown ourselves to be honest, hard working dedicated mugs, who actually enjoy the idea of adding several hours more onto our workload in a day, all for nothing, apart from the feeling that you have made a great place even better. I have to say, I was surprised when I was invited to take on moderating duties, but at the time, I had shown myself to be dedicated, not only to the art of magic, but to help with the smooth running of the forums.

As for deserving to be a moderator, well I am not sure quite how to answer this question. I don't think that I am better than the members on the board, and I am sure that many of them would make very good moderators. There are certain things that we have to look for when considering someone for a moderating position, there are lots of qualities that are needed, too many to list and I sure some people would disagree with me. But it just so happens that each of us on the mod team has something different to contribute, and, if a time comes when we are faced with another problem that makes us feel that we need another moderator, then we will look for a person who we feel will fit the exact role that is being offered. So a large part of it is being in the right place at the right time! I was not invited to be a moderator straight away, I was asked to take on the role of standards officer, this came with no enhanced accesses of any kind. I did so, wanting to put something back into a place that I had got so much out of. When a moderating position was offered to me, I jumped at the chance, again, I want to put something back into a place where I have got so much out of.

On a side note though, I noticed that you question was phrased in rather a hostile way. I do not feel that we moderate people, we moderate the forum, occasionally this does entail having to edit or delete posts written in certain ways, but more often we moderate the stats on the board, we make sure everything runs smoothly.

Rich: Personally, I see myself as any other member. I was simply part of the original team who set this forum up due to an earlier incident and therefore was offered moderating duties. And most of the time, a moderator doesn't do that much. Just editing and deleting of a few posts, making a few decisions and sweating like heck when something goes wrong. As Mike said we have exactly the same rules imposed upon us as any other member, and if any of us did something wrong, we can be dismissed. It is also based on the choices of Admin, who has final say on everything. All moderators are trusted completely by him and are also chosen as Laura said by how much time people can spare and how committed they are to the boards. However I do agree with Laura that your question is a little hostile. Work on these boards can sometimes get very heavy and some people on here spend several hours every day doing various chores, especially Admin who has the shop to run etc. If we do ever feel the need for a new moderator, we choose someone who has given a lot to the boards, has the time and also known to us. I hope that answers your question.

Nigel: You may be interested to learn that I can see all users who are online, whether they are hidden or not, through the "admin panel" and I can assure you that it is rare to come online to find that there are no moderators online. About five or six months ago, I emailed four moderators and requested that they change their status to "hidden" for my own private reasons. Therefore, although you cannot view these moderators I can assure you that I can. Not only that, my profile is hidden too and I can assure you that I tend to spend at least two hours online at Magic Bunny each weekday evening at the very least, four hours at weekends. Therefore, the names that you see at the bottom of the screen are a little deceptive. You may only see one moderator online at the moment (18.17 - Wednesday 5th March 2003) but I can currently see four. Please don't assume that, just because these names are not listed on the index screen, they are not online.

Although I cannot speak for the other moderators, you may be interested to know of my own personal criteria for approaching members requesting moderator duties. My recent nominations have been based on the following criteria; the apparent love of magic though enthusiastic postings, a mature and sensitive attitude, a desire to want to help others of these boards, support for the ethos of the boards in general, a creditable board history that involves numerous posts made over an extended period of time, a good background in magic, the ability to type with grammatically correct language and the possession of specific gifts or talents such as a knowledge of software. 

I'm not saying that all the moderators (including myself) process these qualities in abundance but these are the factors that have influenced some of my more recent nominations. You may also be interested to know that any member of the moderator team is able to nominate names too and when it comes to a poll, we all have an equal vote. Perhaps some of the above list are things that we should all strive to aim for, whether we are moderators or not.

Andy D.: Quoting Joker, “There are many members on here who spend hors every night on MB, post hundreds of helpful messages and help countless other members. Why do you think you deserve to be a moderator instead of them?”  That is a very hard question to answer. As some of you may know, we have a 'set' amount of Mods, so just because one member may 'shine' above others, we cannot just offer them the post. But rest assured, when a place becomes available the person who best fits our criteria for moderator, will be offered the position. Just as a footnote though, you post quite often and are quite helpful, but I can tell you why I deserve to be a moderator more than you. You see, each Mod must be trustworthy and selfless.....................hey!, nuff said.

Huw: While it's an honour to help to run a board as good as Bunny, I certainly don't see being a moderator as giving me any special rights over other members. If there is anything that makes me 'deserve' this position (and I'm not saying that I do), it is trying always to remember that simple fact…

Mike: And the first "cheap shot" is fired by Andy D.

Joker: Thanks to Andy D for giving me the confidence to post this question and to researches who found certain posts.  This question doe not reflect my personal opinions but is merely an observation. Mike and Huw have copyright notices in their signatures to prevent they work getting stolen. How can they do this but then allow posts in the secrets area which reveals secrets to copyrighted (marketed or not) effects or gimmicks. There is an argument that the posts are in the secrets area where only magicians can see them but the forum which stole Huw's posts was also very restricted. Once again, this question does not reflect my personal opinions.

Sean: You have to realize, there is a difference between discussion and revelation. We are not just coming on and saying this is how so and so does this. We start a discussion and people can put forward possible ideas and opinions on how it was achieved. They can suggest different methods for it and add ideas. That's what a discussion is. The idea of copyright on these effects is very promiscuous. How far do we go? Can we name the effect without putting © beside it? After all, the name would probably be copyright too? If we went down this road, magic wouldn't exist any longer. People would be afraid to discuss things and people would never learn.

Huw: Copyright has a very specific legal meaning. It guards against the actual work of the originator being reproduced without authorization. If, for example, you were to republish Einstein's explanation of relativity in his own words, you would be violating his copyright (well, actually, that copyright has now expired - but you get the idea). But to paraphrase the ideas expressed in that explanation would not be a violation of copyright. Indeed, that would be required of you if you were teaching physics. Be assured that the moderator team is keenly interested in avoiding the violation of copyright. We would never allow somebody to reprint an author's manuscript or any part thereof. We also do our best to ensure that members do not violate other ethical rules of simple 'good behaviour' and respect for the originator of a trick. If anyone believes that a member specifically violates any legal or ethical principle in the discussion of magic, they should say so and we will consider each matter on an individual basis. However, bear in mind that people can only learn magic by studying existing effects and attempting to develop new effects. Just as students can only learn relativity by studying Einstein's theory.

Mike: Some US copyright laws: “*How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission?  *Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentages of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances.”

 The copyright on the bottom of our posts does not overwrite anyone copyright, it simply states that the words that we have written in our posts are OUR words, not somebody else's, and we stake claim to those words and you don't have the right to copy them for use elsewhere, unless it is for private use. However, and this is the real point in the matter, the copyright notice that we've put across our posts at the bottom doesn't really mean anything because our work, your work too Dan, is copyrighted already. Yes, that's right, it is already copyrighted, just as soon as you hit submit, you've copyrighted your own material in your name, whether it is your real name or pseudonym is irrelevant.

Read this: “*When is my work protected?  *Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form so that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.”

Nigel: The issue if copyright is a complex one and so I can understand if you feel confused regarding this topic. I have checked the links that you have produced and I have been unable to find any reason to believe that any infringement has occurred. I believe that your confusion may have arisen due to a false perception of the idea of copyright. Clearly every output of a person is copyrighted, be is a magic effect, a musical piece, a novel, a TV programme, a film and so on. However, it is not against the law to discuss your own feelings regarding such output. If this were the case, anyone who proclaimed that they enjoyed listening to a named song, anyone who talked about their feelings regarding a named picture, anyone who repeated a catchphrase from a named TV show and so on would have infringed on the legalities of copyright and be subjected to imprisonment of a fine. Clearly this is absurd.

The same is true with magic. This forum is magic forum - it is here for members to talk about magic. If we prohibited a member giving their own personal thoughts regarding an effect, devising alternative methods regarding an effect, even quoting the name of an effect, then there would be no threads at all within these forums. There are times when a discussion is deemed inappropriate and the associated members are contacted regarding the reasons for some form of action. This, however, is very rare and members are very much free to discuss their impressions regarding an effect, their alternative ideas and so on. This is the one important function of these forums.

I would also like to add that the restrictive nature of a forum does NOT exclude you from the law. This is tantamount to committing murder within a "members only" club and then proclaiming innocence as the entrance to such a venue was restricted. The law applies in restricted areas as well as on open forums. I will continue to ensure that the law is fully adhered to across all forums of these boards. I would like to think that other forums on the Internet would do the same. Unfortunately this is not always the case and this is the reason why I too am following criminal actions against a deviant user who has stolen word-for word articles from my own private files contained within a restricted area and used these without my consent.

Luke Roberts: Do you take spending cards assigned by www.splashplastic.com ?

Mike: Sorry Luke, but no we don't. Check or money order is required. Mike.

Nigel: Sorry Luke. The important thing to remember is that I am NOT an Internet store - I am a schoolteacher who merely provides the Magic Bunny products at a vastly discounted price as an extra way of supporting our regular members here. The Magic Bunny "shop" is nothing more than a shelf full of items in the study of my home. I am not a warehouse or a full-time retail outlet. This is the reason why I only accept cheques or postal orders.

Sean: Originally I checked out Splash Plastic but it is just too expensive. Like Admin said, we make very little profit as it is not a store. The Splash Plastic thing cost a lot of money (I can't remember the exact figure) but I think it was around a few thousand a year plus a % of profits etc. There is no way that we could afford any prices like this.

Kevin: What are all of your most recent magical purchases, it will be interesting to hear. Even if it is a deck of cards!

Chabang: Erm, an industrial winch, some trousers and about half a ton of wood. on the magic front it would have to be a few miles of kevlar based invisible thread so I can make wine bottles float.

Sean: Quoting Kevin, “Even if it is a deck of cards!”  It was a deck of cards!  Well, 3 decks, but same thing.

Mike: My most recent purchase, about two weeks back, was two packs of 10 hat tears and the latest edition of Genii magazine. Normally, I don't buy any magic magazines, being happy with the one I get from IBM, however, the hat tears were 10 dollars per pack, which came to 20 dollars. The postage on anything under 25 dollars with this company is 5 dollars, but if you buy 25 dollars or more, the postage is free. Genii was a 6 dollar purchase, so basically I got Genii for a dollar. Just prior to that I picked up Peter Loughran's Elevator, which I will be doing in front of magicians the beginning of next month and will then review it on our reviews pages. Just prior to that was my Christmas present, a very nice wand and a gold plated ball and vase. Before that, it was months since I ordered anything and my next purchase will be some pyros (flash paper and such) and a diabolo.

Huw: Um, some post-it notes, some pencils, some spiral bound pads of paper and some bulldog clips. Mentalism gimmicks may not be as much fun as magic gimmicks, but they are definitely a lot cheaper!

Nigel: In the earlier days of my magic development, I would purchase gimmick after gimmick. However, since then, I no longer buy any gimmicks at all. I don't want to develop into a magician who cannot perform without a box of specially adapted tools - I want to be able to use everyday objects to produce magical effects. This, I believe, produces a far more powerful experience for the audience.

Whenever I purchase "magical items" now, I tend to spend money on hair bands, elastic bands and common items from the local hardware store. This is why my last "magic purchase" was a packet of birthday balloons.

Rich: Well I hardly ever buy anything to do with magic, but the most recent item was the latest issue of Abracadabra. My latest non-magical item was Lord of the Rings DVD which I ordered about an hour ago.

Laura: Mine would be Overwhelming wands, which I ordered a couple of hours ago!

Wallace: Owing to the existing drawers being overflowing with the result of more foolish years I seldom make any sort of magic purchase anymore!  However, I confess to falling for the new Loomis/Riser Micro Chop Cup which is a tiny Chop cup for use in the hands rather than on a table! A typical Jim Riser product made with real craftsmanship.

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